The Bender Continues
Everyday bros talking about how life goes!
The Bender Continues
The Housing Market
Some call it chaos; we call it comedy! James and Johnny are back with a hysterical recount of their moving and home buying escapades. From shedding pounds and unnecessary junk to the hilarious misadventures of loans and misspelled names, our latest episode is loaded with real-life drama and laugh-out-loud moments. We navigate the financial and emotional hurdles of relocating, sharing our tips and tricks for a smoother ride, and trust us, you'll need the laughs if you're in the middle of a move yourself.
Ever wondered about the hidden costs lurking in home buying? Brace yourselves as we uncover the impact of mortgage interest rates over the long haul and the crucial role of realtors and loan officers in this labyrinth. We'll dissect the Florida Save Our Homes Act and reveal how to make the most of its portability option. Plus, we expose the shocking fees in commercial real estate, like the dreaded CAM reconciliation fee, and clear up common misconceptions about credit checks during the loan process. Get ready to become a smarter homebuyer!
Finally, we weigh the pros and cons of renting versus owning, especially for today's younger generations grappling with a tough housing market. We'll explore state-by-state housing price trends, spotlighting the most and least affordable places to buy a home. And as always, we'll sprinkle in our personal moving nightmares and triumphs, from battling Florida's sweltering heat to dealing with storage companies. Whether you're contemplating a move or just love a good story, this episode promises a blend of humor, practical advice, and a whole lot of heart.
Good Hello gents. How are we doing today? James, you're looking slim buddy.
James LaGamma:Oh, fuck off.
Ryan Selimos:It also looks like you're in a very empty room with an echo. It looks like it's just you yourself in the room. What's going going on there? Do you like take everything out?
James LaGamma:oh well, I you know I slimmed down on the body. I also slimmed down in, uh, all the furniture and stuff I have. My house it's all gone. Just got this chair and a laptop.
Ryan Selimos:That's it what's going on? We got a garage sale this week. You got the whole room out in the front yard. What's the situation, man? He was in an.
Kenny Massa:XS scan and just got rid of everything in his life.
James LaGamma:Yeah, I got rid of everything in my life. Lose the XS. I had to lose all the weight man I was carrying around too much.
Kenny Massa:Yeah, exactly One XS scan in your life Yep, yep yeah exactly One deck's a scam.
James LaGamma:It's in your life, yep, yep, no, no, no, we're moving, exciting, really Okay, why are you?
Ryan Selimos:acting like you didn't know that. For the suspense, let's go to part two. Johnny, are you in the same room with him? You're looking at me as well. What's going on on that?
Kenny Massa:Yeah, he kind of looks like the same walk-on A little bit, a little bit.
Ryan Selimos:It does, it does. This is our virtual backdrop. You didn't know, guys. Obviously I did not miss the memo there.
Jonny Strahl:You mentioned he's slimming down a little bit on the body slimming down on the furniture. You know he's moving a new house.
Ryan Selimos:I am doing that also, but I also think, James, you missed one point we're slimming down to the bank account right now.
Jonny Strahl:That's for damn sure, yo Holy crap.
James LaGamma:It's bad, dude. It's like a crisis.
Ryan Selimos:Woo, my lantern.
James LaGamma:Oh my God, the stress Just money is going out, none is coming in.
Ryan Selimos:It's the first time my signature ever felt so important in my life.
Jonny Strahl:Just keep signing away, keep giving them.
Kenny Massa:Oh yeah. Pack it like that big. You're just like shit to sign.
Ryan Selimos:Just wait because you know the loan is going to get sold off somewhere, probably to a big bank. Just let it be the bank that you actually bank with, and then you get to log in every day and see just how much you owe and how little you have in your accounts to pay it off.
Kenny Massa:I'm not gonna name any names, but last time we we got, uh, our last property that we got, they sold off the loan like literally within like 24 I don't even know if it was 24 hours, like fucking yeah we literally went to our car after we signed everything.
Kenny Massa:It was sold off. It was a big bank, the one who bought it. But they typed my fucking name wrong and it was a like. It was like a. They added like some letter at the end of my first name and it was like a whole thing to get it changed.
Jonny Strahl:Yeah.
Kenny Massa:Apparently, I didn't do anything wrong. Someone typed it wrong in the system and then everything was wrong, like how the hell did you guys close?
James LaGamma:you shouldn't have been able to close it was.
Kenny Massa:We know we did close with the people who we originally got the loan with and then when they sold it off, during that process it got messed up. Everything on the original side was fine, but when they bought the loan, when they sold it off, the new bank that acquired the loan typed it in wrong, yeah, so that was a whole. That took like six months of time.
James LaGamma:I really want you to name names now.
Ryan Selimos:What was that movie with Michael Scott. You know the Big Short. If I write a loan Friday afternoon, big Bang's going to buy it by Monday lunch. There you go, kenny. They're right there. We're just back in 2008. Didn't even take that long.
James LaGamma:Every loan is getting sold onto the secondary market. That's how they commit you and how you're getting your rates and all that stuff.
Kenny Massa:At the end of the day, who really gives a shit where the money's coming from it's? All coming from the same place on the very, very top, even the local banks. They're just trying to build big enough to get bought by the big banks and the big banks just power it down. Anyway, it's all coming from the big banks.
Jonny Strahl:It's probably the same five.
Kenny Massa:There's like five of them. That's it, we could go down a real interesting. We'll get back on track.
Jonny Strahl:Actually, you know what this is a great time to take advantage of James' silence.
Kenny Massa:Yeah, you just go in on it, good comment.
James LaGamma:You guys are ridiculous.
Ryan Selimos:He's very comfortable in the process because he's going through it right now. That's the only reason he's very comfortable with the process. The home buying experience.
James LaGamma:No, I'm not comfortable at all. This has been miserable Buying and selling. Johnny has the luxury of keeping his house. I'm fucking selling and buying. That shit is just the worst. Timing problems so much information that you do not have to be able to make decisions on the next home. It's nuts, it's really. The moving process is terrible. Thank God it's just like 45 minutes down the road. I'm not moving like across state lines that would be. I couldn't even imagine doing that.
Ryan Selimos:Hey, listen, the moving process is not that bad when you hire movers. Baby, when I moved into this house I played golf with you that morning, james. We went out, I played horrible, came back. All my shit was at the new house. It was a very nice experience outside of the shitty golf.
Kenny Massa:Well, we know where James's stands DIY or pay the guy.
James LaGamma:No, I went in the middle. I'm in the middle of the pack runner here. All right, I've got pods. Okay, so the shit will be there.
Kenny Massa:Pods are good, it's just a lot cheaper.
James LaGamma:So I just, I just had to fill them up myself, you know, because none of my friends wanted to come around and help me.
Ryan Selimos:That is inaccurate, inaccurate.
Kenny Massa:You didn't even ask.
James LaGamma:Oh, I asked Ryan and Johnny.
Ryan Selimos:Hey, I was out of town. Right, I was out of town.
James LaGamma:You were here last weekend, but I was not asking you to come after your fucking honeymoon.
Jonny Strahl:I got back on Saturday.
Ryan Selimos:That's kind of crazy.
Kenny Massa:You just got back from Europe.
James LaGamma:That's when the pods showed up.
Jonny Strahl:Hey babe, we're going to put our house on hold when we're moving. I'm going to go fucking move James and stuff Because he doesn't want to hire too many to truck. Okay.
James LaGamma:So you know that name really just puts a puts a thought in your head we're going to leave it there. We're going to leave it there.
Ryan Selimos:If you have not tuned in, to never mind Too many of us very good company.
Jonny Strahl:It's been Very good experience.
James LaGamma:Instead it was like one and a half men over here.
Jonny Strahl:Yeah.
James LaGamma:I thought you liked that reference. Two and a half men in the show Me and. Lydia, I thought it would be funny, whatever.
Kenny Massa:You know what's got to be true, though, that I was just thinking about when you said that you were selling and buying kind of in in synergy, james, there's people like you had. You were fortunate to be able to find a home and then sell in a really time, like it really there was a scare for a hot second there, though. There's people that they sell their home and then they got to rush to go find something that sucks.
James LaGamma:Well, that's kind of what happened. So right now, inventory is really low, and so we've been monitoring the market of where we want to move, which is the Claremont area of Florida, and we just hadn't seen many things pop up that met our wants and needs list. We wanted a pool, this time the four bedrooms, so these things that we were like these are non-negotiables. Blah, blah, blah. There wasn't just many homes available and so when we put our house on the market, it went in less than 24 hours and we still hadn't picked a home.
James LaGamma:So it was crazy, because we went and saw homes. We were like the pictures were too good to be true on like Zillow and all those websites, so we had no clue if we were going to find a house that actually looked the way the pictures were portraying it. We thought we were just going to get totally just thrown off guard every time we tried to go view homes totally just thrown off guard every time we tried to go view homes. Thank God, we found something like three days later that popped up and we were able to snag it. So we got lucky because we had 30 days to find a home. Yeah, so we only had six. We were allowed 60 days to close on this house, so it worked out, everything worked out. It was good, but for a hot three days we were stressing.
Kenny Massa:Yeah, I think it happens a lot.
James LaGamma:You're 100% correct.
Kenny Massa:Well, it's definitely stressful. I would think I've never been in that situation.
James LaGamma:Well, on the other side of that, Kenny, one of the things that we hear that happens a lot in the mortgage industry there's a lot of time requirements, all this crap that happens and so sometimes, even though you want to close on a certain day, you're not allowed to close on that day.
James LaGamma:And so there are people that are selling their home that literally the moving truck is parked outside the next house and they can't close and so they have to go get hotels and all this stuff. So it's really important to make sure you're staying on top of the mortgage process, understanding what documents are getting sent to you, being timely with signatures and all that shit. So that also could suck, so it's kind of the flip side of that.
Kenny Massa:Yeah, tough. And then on top of the fact that people aren't able to find houses in affordable price ranges these days because of the market, that's a whole different story. But finding a house easy because of the features and desires that you're looking for. But now it makes it even more difficult because the prices are just insane, especially in certain markets, but it's just through the roof in many areas, from what I've seen. We're just looking but, I don't know You've seen it kind of more firsthand because you've been actively going into these houses.
Ryan Selimos:It's a crazy time to be a homebuyer in the good old US of.
James LaGamma:A time to be a home buyer in the good old.
Jonny Strahl:US of A John. Did you have?
James LaGamma:similar experience trying to find your house, or was it felt less stressful or just about as stressful?
Ryan Selimos:I would say the main stress trigger was obviously buying a house and then not having someone rent right away, so paying two mortgages. That was always a fear, always a hesitation there. When you're thinking about it, it was just. You know, we're proactively looking, never like very aggressive, but in this market right right now, even though you keep hearing different mixed messages, things are cooling down, it's not as crazy. You have to be aggressive. There was two or three houses we looked at waited a couple of days. By the next week they were gone or they were impending right. So the house we looked at most recently last month it was same day put in an offer next day, had four different offers and it was a bidding war.
Ryan Selimos:So, um, yeah, it's, it's fun times, obviously fortunate, thankful to be in the situation, but it is, uh, it's a stressful piece and what's really stressful is going through it your first time, but also like you just don't know, like there's just so much information and you're putting trust in so many different people's hands that are experts and knowledgeable in what they know and until you start to really look at the end of the numbers after 15 years or 30 years, it really gets you like dang, I'm really spending this much money at this rate to hope it goes down at some point. So yeah, it's been quite the experience. Let's just say that.
James LaGamma:Dude, when you got your closing disclosure, go look at the tip, the total interest percentage, and it'll tell you a total percentage of the amount of interest you'll be paying based off of the loan amount that you have. And it makes you sick, it's scary. I think mine's somewhere around 70% and it's just going to be an astronomical amount. So, like you, never because of interest, obviously, you're never paying the mortgage amounts. So if you get, like, say, the national average mortgage amount right now, which is like 400,000, you're not paying 400,000. You're paying basically 750,000 over 30 years.
Jonny Strahl:Yep.
James LaGamma:If that's the proper math, 70% of 400,000.
Kenny Massa:Give or take, yeah.
James LaGamma:On top of it. Yeah, it's about, it's around that figure, probably give or take $20,000.
Jonny Strahl:Yeah.
Kenny Massa:Assuming that you make regular payments on schedule for a 30-year term.
James LaGamma:Yeah, and not to mention taxes. Taxes keep going up. And, johnny, by the way, you might want to look into this thing. We're going to be doing it, but in Florida there's actually a statute on the Save Our Homes Act where you can do this thing called portability, so you transfer your taxes from your current home that's homesteaded to your new home.
Ryan Selimos:You only get to do that one time, though in a lifetime.
James LaGamma:So we're going to do it. So that could be something. Yeah, I think you have to just file by March of next year when Homestead's required, and then you can get the portability, so that way your next assessment the following year doesn't go up to the market adjust value.
Ryan Selimos:Which is interesting because when you like sit down with someone and they break that down and share that with you, like that's just such a good thing to know that many people may not know right, or unless you do a significant amount of research and you're able to really retain whatever information you're reading, because, again, there's just so much out there.
James LaGamma:But yeah, no, that's a good call for sure did someone actually tell you about this, or is this your first time hearing about it?
Ryan Selimos:no, our um, our realtor um, who's obviously family friend, you know been doing it for years sold the first house, worked with bray on her house um, so yeah, but it's I mean it's critical, right?
James LaGamma:yeah, well, I was curious just if who told you, if it was someone that was an industry professional? Because I mean, even though my mother is our realtor, that's who told me about it, which is my mother. So it's like, well, where do you hear this stuff from? That's what I was more kind of going towards, is do you actually hear it from the industry professionals trying to set you up for success and give, like you kind of said, you're you're kind of putting your stuff in their hands and so you hope that they can guide you? You got your loan officer, you got your real estate agent. You know they're kind of your team to help get you into a home of your dreams, but also within your means. So it's hard, it is.
Kenny Massa:I think one of the biggest things is just being aware of all the unexpected expenses that come with buying a home. It's not like you pay $400,000 and you just write a check for 10%, 20%, whatever it is, and then it's done. There's a laundry list of additional expenses between fees and from every single person that you talk to. But that was one thing that took me by surprise when I looked at that. When we bought our first, it was a rental property when we bought the first property, but still regardless was that was a lot, it was. There's a lot of like a lot of I wouldn't say hidden shit, but unaware shit that is on this big bill that you don't expect yeah, but they try to it's all they try
James LaGamma:to alone they try to do a good job of getting you the information up front with the loan estimate, and fees aren't supposed to change.
James LaGamma:There's certain tolerances depending on whether or not you're shopping for stuff and all this other stuff that goes along with that. I won't get into it, but you're supposed to, as a buyer, look at that loan estimate that's kind of your document to compare quotes. Use it as a quote in a saying. That's how you should shop around and compare LEs to other lenders, because one of the biggest things is I can't remember if it's 30 days, 3 months or what the timeline is, but when you're shopping around and you're getting your credit pulled, you can do that multiple times at multiple different institutions to find the best deal essentially, and not get a ding on your credit for all these hard pulls, and so that's kind of the thing you want to get that loan estimate so you can see, okay, what's the fee structure looking like, what rates. Am I getting that kind of stuff to stare and compare the deals. Now, how many of you use different lenders?
Kenny Massa:Or shopped around at all.
James LaGamma:I guess you were one and done you did two, ryan, I did two.
Kenny Massa:But I think everyone's afraid of getting their credit.
Ryan Selimos:I don't want to sell the topic. That is the dumbest thing. Do it, do it. Do it For something that needs to be done that is required you something that needs to be done, that is required, you get dinged for that. That's right, baby. That's the good old US of A.
Kenny Massa:Anyway, yeah, there's fees that come about in anything. Right now we're talking about residential, but the commercial real estate fees don't get me started on that oh well, yeah, that's a whole different cam reconciliation fee. Dude, if you're thinking about commercial real estate, just ask someone about cam reconciliation fee. If you want to get kicked in the balls, pay cam reconciliation fee once a year. That's a kick in the balls. No one one tells you about it Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's not fun, especially if you have a big, decent-sized monthly payment.
Ryan Selimos:Is that like the cost from landscaping and janitorial, all that type of stuff?
Kenny Massa:CAM is Common Area Maintenance. But the issue is, if we're in South Florida, like all that type of stuff, like it comes with it, cam is common area maintenance. But the issue is if, like we're in South Florida, right, so technically common area maintenance could be increases of insurance the building's air conditioning unit fails and they got to get new air conditioning units for whatever $80,000 or whatever the fuck it is. They're paving the roads outside, they're updating rugs and changing this and changing that. Now I would say most of it depending on the commercial property company. I would say they're pretty fair with a lot of things, but the biggest thing that I've seen kind of like kick us in the balls, to say the least, is the insurance aspect. Insurance increases on the properties get fed back down to the tenants and it all comes down to an additional fee per square foot and that shit adds up a lot. Tens of thousands of dollars, a lot, I mean.
Ryan Selimos:At least you still have insurance in South Florida Isn't there almost a run on insurance companies where they're starting to pull out of the state, especially in the coastal areas like a West Palm, a Florida Lauderdale or Miami? So, on the one hand, what would you rather be getting kicked in the balls for the increases in insurance or being put in a situation where you don't have insurance?
Kenny Massa:Technically, I don't own the fucking building anyway. So who gives a fuck? I rent, so then fuck them. It's kind of like 50-50. I don't fucking own the property, so it's a little bit different. Do I lose my unit? Technically? Yeah, but I'm on a shorter term. I don't own the building. So it's just one of those types of scenarios where, yeah, I don't. I don't know when you, when you look at it, all said and done, over a five-year term, how much you've paid for for these types of expenses. It's a lot of money, yeah, yeah, but it's all I couldn't imagine in New York City, where these buildings are close to God only knows $75 to $150 a square foot. And then they have massive increases on insurance and all of these different rules and regulations that everyone's aware of that don't abide by popular demand. And I couldn't imagine, couldn't imagine. Well, I guess that's the reason why they have issues with filling office space in new york to your point, ryan.
James LaGamma:Insurance has been going up nationwide too, which has been hurting a lot of people.
Ryan Selimos:What isn't going up nationwide. Find me one thing that's going down nationwide. I would love to hear that, because everything is fucking going up Going down.
James LaGamma:My bank account.
Kenny Massa:James' bank account is going down.
Jonny Strahl:Yeah, now it's.
James LaGamma:You know, what I was mostly looking forward to with selling this house was seeing for one day, and one day, only $100,000 in my bank account. I don't even get to see it. They're wiring it straight to the other house.
Ryan Selimos:Crazy, how quickly, crazy how quickly wiring money can happen though, when they need the money just goes right through, no questions asked capital test for $25 in two business days through Venmo.
Ryan Selimos:It doesn't go through but hey, wire $100,000 right away unreal kind of a question for for of you, james and John, since you're going through this process and you were previously homeowners. You bought at a time like around 2018, 2019, 2020, where rates were at an all-time low, and now you're buying at a time where rates are not all-time high, but they're a lot different. So how did that affect your decision to get into the market? Johnny, on your hand, you're keeping that house. You're renting, james, you're selling and then moving into new one. Did you hold off thinking the rates were going to go down? How long have you been thinking about this? And just what was that experience? What was that thought process around the rates being so high at this point in time?
James LaGamma:Johnny, you want to go first?
Jonny Strahl:You can go first, good sir.
James LaGamma:I insist.
Ryan Selimos:I don't know. I just feel like you can double the rates and it still doesn't even quote unquote match it's still higher. You double the rate we it still doesn't even match. It's still higher. If you double the rate we had in 2019, which is nuts, we can almost triple it. That's how low it was. I don't know. I think there's a lot that comes with it.
Ryan Selimos:What are you looking to do in the future when it comes to the family? Purchasing a bigger home you want a pool, you want this, you want to be in the future, right like when it comes to the family, you know. Purchasing a bigger home you want a pool, you want this, you want to be on the lake, you want that all these things that come with it, right? Um, for me, one of the biggest drivers was from renting, or trying to rent was one to be put in a position where you have to do it to really figure out if you're built for it, and that was something I kind of. I'm nervous, right, cause we all been in a spot where we rented. It's always nice to pick up the phone and be the guy that says, hey, this is broke, go fix it, but to then be in the position to where you're going to get that call.
Jonny Strahl:And then, hey, I'm working on the DIY thing. We're going to get there.
Ryan Selimos:Hopefully I've quite the learning curve. But again, I don't know. I just it's just a crazy time and you know who knows, six months from now, what could the market look like?
Ryan Selimos:We have absolutely no idea. It's an election year. Two Things always get a little bit unique. In November it's we're in a. I feel like we said this for the last couple of years, but it's like what if scenarios like what can happen? What will happen? Nobody knows. So the more pondering and the more waiting, it's just created this gap to where we're here. We're now doing it and, um, I don't know. We'll see if it was worth it or not when the market goes, whatever direction either greater or less, I don don't know.
Jonny Strahl:Ryan, you could be buying a foreclosed house for $150,000 for all we know here pretty shortly, who knows? I don't know Hope, so That'd be nice. I mean, james and I would be kicking ourselves.
James LaGamma:I agree with you, johnny. One of the biggest things is, like you're right, the election year, right, that could massively change where rates go. Depending on who's in office changes the whole economic outlook, what's going on, how things are going to work out. So there's just a what, if? But at the end of the day, I don't have a crystal ball. So to Johnny's point you've got goals and aspirations. Do you want to start a family? You want these things? Blah, blah, blah. If you have the means, you can't gamble too much. I mean, yes, you can, but at the same time, if you're ready to go and you have the means and the timing's still okay for you, there's no way to say, well, no, I'm going to hold off a couple of months because I feel like rates are going to drop.
James LaGamma:You guys have heard me say I always said we were going to start looking in August, september time. We decided to go earlier. It kind of happened all of a sudden. But it's just, we always planned for this year. Three, four years in the house is when we wanted to basically exit. Now, granted, I actually was thinking about doing what Johnny was doing originally too. Granted, I actually was thinking about doing what Johnny was doing originally too, but we decided we wanted to go for the forever home, and so we did need the extra equity out of this house. However, walking away from a 2.5 interest rate is that's hard, that hurts.
Ryan Selimos:You'll refinance, don't worry. It's going to bust at some point. It's a bubble.
James LaGamma:Don't worry, james. Oh man, it hurts. But here's the other side of things too, because we were able to make a larger down payment on a house, hoping that housing prices stay a little stagnant, if not just continue to rise, especially in the area that we purchased, where we're expecting the market to only increase just because Claremont is an up and coming area.
James LaGamma:A lot of building is happening out there, et cetera, et cetera. The minute that you put, say, 20% down on a home, you've already got 20% in equity, right? It's kind of an interesting way of looking at it. I already have that much equity in this house. Now, straight out the gate, a couple more years we're paying down the mortgage on it, blah, blah, blah. We can use that and leverage that to do other things, like maybe go into figuring out if we want to get a rental later on, when maybe rates are lower and instead of we could refinance. But instead of that, you know, take the cash out and essentially go maybe buy another property and start that process. Then you never know, there is, there is a way to finagle debt in your favor. But again, you know, sometimes you're lucky and you've got the means and you have the ability to do these kind of things, and so you might as well just jump on the opportunity if it's, if it's, if you feel like you're ready for it.
Ryan Selimos:so facts and you guys, I'm curious, like and I know there's one person that comes to mind right away, he he's all over social media but like, do you guys know anybody who are just 100% against the mentality of owning a home and are all about renting and think that there is no such thing in owning a home as an asset? Like, do you know anybody that way a home as an asset? Do you know anybody that way? I wouldn't say I know a specific person, but I do think that mentality is becoming more and more common, just of everyday people. I think it has to do with just things being more expensive and people from a DIY standpoint, maybe this generation and younger generations not being as handy as older generations, so kind of those factors, and just talking with people about it, people are more open to the idea of renting. People are more open to the idea of, like, leasing a car versus owning a car. So I think that mentality is definitely more prevalent now than 15, 20 years ago.
Ryan Selimos:Now is it a fad or is it something that continues We'll wait and see but definitely more common, whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. Also, I think this group here maybe not, but who knows?
James LaGamma:I feel like that's a funny question that you asked, johnny. I feel like I do know someone that told me I'm renting until I die, that there's just no means for me to fucking. I'm not going to buy because it's all bullshit. I'm trying to remember who the fuck said that to me. But anyways, again the problem is you're throwing, throwing your money away. At least you get equity. Yes, you can get foreclosed upon. So that's probably the whole point of like. Do you actually own the home? No, you don't. You have a fucking mortgage, you have a loan. It's the same thing for everything. Like you don't own your truck when you buy your truck until you pay off the loan, it's. It's just, it's a means of being able to get something when you don't have the ability to pay it full out. You know right at the gate, but then again you can leverage debt Most rich people leverage debt to make more money.
James LaGamma:You can do that with buying a home where, instead of paying $2,000 a month if that's if you can even find rent for that these days for a house you're just throwing that money away. If you're at least putting it towards a mortgage again, you can do things with that. You can pay for schools, you can pay for getting improvements, whatever you need. You can take the money out of the equity in your home and build that. Yeah, you need. You can take the money out of the equity in your home and build that. Plus, there's a lot of an argument to be made that buying a home can help build generational wealth, because then you can give that asset when it's actually paid off in 30 years, when you're older, and now it's just straight profit.
James LaGamma:Whatever, your kids want to end up doing with it Now. Granted, it can get ugly at that point in time, some people get a little greedy. But kids want to end up doing with it now. Granted, it can get ugly at that point in time. Uh, some people get a little greedy, but yeah, uh, yeah, I don't know if that mentality is smart.
Kenny Massa:Um, I don't think I don't think it's a straight and narrow answer. I think that it really comes down to someone's personal finances at that point in time and also their way of life.
Kenny Massa:At that point in time Now, when you're a single guy and you're younger and you're moving around a lot, you're not really sure about stability. Yeah, I don't think it's probably the right recommendation to maybe owning a home if you're going to be moving around a lot, the right recommendation to maybe owning a home if you're going to be moving around a lot and you're not going to really be taking care of your home, because I think it's something that it just depends. Maybe an apartment, a condo, there's certain things like that that I think might be better, because then you don't really have the minimal maintenance there. You have HOA payments. But I think it really just comes down to personal finances at the most. I do see why they say that.
Kenny Massa:Right, because if you can make a lower payment now because renting is cheaper than a mortgage, it depends where you are. Go buy something in downtown Miami, buy a condo in downtown Miami. Tell me that you're not going to find something for less than a couple million. Go rent. Probably going to find something cheaper. If someone bought that home five to 10 years ago because the mortgage, the, the amount of the home was less.
Kenny Massa:And they can essentially like charge you at a lower rate because they're not paying on a $4 million home, they're paying on a 1.5. There's just very many circumstances. I do think that there are certain markets that you can rent for cheaper than mortgaging a home.
Kenny Massa:I think that concept is you're basically having more cash in your pocket today and that's allowing you to be able to do things like invest it. That has something that a higher yield. I would say a very, very strategic and devoted way of investing, knowing that every penny is going into a higher yield return, by saving the money in their pocket today and putting it into a, an asset that's going to yield a return of 10, 15% or whatever. The likelihood of them saving that money and then investing it. I don't know, but yeah, and like that's, I think, where the person that you're talking about on social media. That's what he's pushing yeah, well, he's.
Ryan Selimos:you know it's funny. You have, like all of you guys, valid points right and like it's like, yeah, you can. Let's just say you buy a five hundred thousand000 house, right, you put 20% down, yeah. If you don't do that, yeah, you could save $100,000. But to your point, where are you putting that $100,000 to invest in? And is that going to return positive? You never know, because if you invest in the market, maybe in something else, maybe into a company, I don't know Then again you also see those people who have developed long-term wealth that own a bunch of multifamily homes and properties.
Ryan Selimos:They go ahead and rent something because they own a bunch of properties themselves. It's interesting.
James LaGamma:House hacking is really interesting too. You get a duplex and then you live in one side and rent out the other. My buddy's doing that right now. He's getting ready to get another duplex, I think maybe even a triplex, I don't know.
Ryan Selimos:Well, think about who did that in good old D-Land. That's what Lynn used to do or still does.
Jonny Strahl:Oh, there still does.
Kenny Massa:Oh, but I also think the concept of having a home on the asset side of a ledger is not correct. I think that is a it's the right way of saying this a bank's way to get more people to buy homes, because a home is not an asset, because you're just're just shoving money. Yes, you're gaining equity in it, but, like james said earlier, how much of that is interest and how much of this is that principle for the first five to ten years you're not paying. You're not gaining much equity in the initial five to ten years unless you're paying down principle and you know all that bullshit.
James LaGamma:But which is the smart move, but that's so hard for people to be able to do that.
Ryan Selimos:And I know I can't do it.
Kenny Massa:And it's a what if right. No, like I think we know of that, like we learned that. I learned that like years ago actually in college and one of the finance classes. But there's a lot of people that don't know that you can pay that additional principal and then like that's.
James LaGamma:But then you also have the comment of time value of money. Well, why am I paying down extra on principal Instead? Why can't I just go invest it If I've got the money? That's a so essentially like. The idea is you get a home where maybe it only takes up about 10, 15% of your debt, to where you can add about, uh, an extra mortgage payment a year on top of that in in principle down payments, essentially paying extra on your on your mortgage payment and and yeah, but again, that's more money.
James LaGamma:You could be investing in the stock market or whatever the fuck you want to invest. It's just dude. Everyone's got their own ideas on what works and what doesn't. There's really no recipe that works for any of this stuff. You just got to do your own due diligence, figure out what you think is going to work out, make sure that you put the time and effort in researching it and are willing to lose too, because not everything's a winner.
Kenny Massa:Yeah, going back to that old saying right, there's more than one way to skin a cat, definitely on your road to creating financial freedom, or millions, or whatever you're after, but there's definitely more than one way and it's different for everybody, based off of many different factors.
Jonny Strahl:Yeah, yeah.
Ryan Selimos:Good times more than one way and it's different for everybody, based off of many different factors. Yeah, good times. Take the dave, uh, dave ramsey, uh, what is the baby steps?
Jonny Strahl:step number six pay off your home early. Pay for it in cash.
Kenny Massa:Yeah, I mean I.
James LaGamma:Is that the guy on social media you're talking about, Johnny?
Ryan Selimos:No, I was Name drop. I was talking about Grant Cardone.
Kenny Massa:Yeah, I knew exactly who he was. Oh, okay.
Ryan Selimos:He's been all over it lately.
Kenny Massa:I mean Gotcha, Listen, Look. I mean I think that there's a lot of concepts that I believe that he's got a point on For sure, but there's just so many variables to that. If you're looking to stay somewhere for 20 years, 30 years or forever, or if you're buying a forever home, why would you rent forever? I agree.
Jonny Strahl:I agree.
Kenny Massa:But if you're someone who's young and you're moving around and you're not sure and the market's crazy and interest rates are high there's a lot of printing money going on, I mean you can probably find a better deal. And it also just depends on where you're living, right, if you're in, if you're in utah, compared to new york city the totally different world, totally different factors.
James LaGamma:So just so many variables world, totally different factors, so just so many variables. Yeah, I think uh, I actually have the lowest states uh, housing prices, uh, where is it where? Is it yeah, right here the lowest state is iowa, with medium home prices.
Kenny Massa:What's the highest?
James LaGamma:California.
Kenny Massa:Florida's up there too, man.
Ryan Selimos:Getting bigger.
Jonny Strahl:Yeah, for sure I got a PSA announcement Listen, florida.
Ryan Selimos:We got hurricanes, we got insurances leaving the state. You know we're going to be gone. South Florida is going to be gone in 20 years from climate change, all right. So it's not a great place to be. Don't move here. It's not a great place to be. Don't move here. It's too expensive. Stay the fuck out of Florida. We're too far gone. Go to Iowa or these other places. Just stop looking at Florida. We can't help you. We can't help ourselves.
Ryan Selimos:Ryan, what people are you talking to? From what states though? Fucking California, for starters. My wife, are you talking to? From what state is that? From? Fucking California, for starters. Like my wife? No, but these people, they come in, dude. I see my parents, like someone came in with a cash offer of a million dollars. My parents have lived in the. It's just it's crazy. Locals can't keep up the new money. It's just it's crazy. Locals can't keep up the new money that's coming in. It's outrageous and I just I don't understand it, because Florida is just, it's a shit. It's terrible. So stay away. That is my message. Get the fuck out of here. We don't want you. We don't need you.
James LaGamma:Ryan, did you see the video that I sent in our group chat?
Ryan Selimos:The Ryan, did you see the video that I sent in our group chat?
James LaGamma:The 30-minute video that you sent. Yeah, you just needed to watch the first five minutes.
Ryan Selimos:Made about a minute and a half.
Kenny Massa:I didn't check the time on it.
James LaGamma:It's all about the first statement. Florida is the fastest growing state in the country right now Get them out. Yeah, I watched them. Insane, Insane. But let's play a quick little game. Growing state in the country right now. Get them out. Insane, insane. Let's play a quick little game. Let's see if you guys can guess what Florida's average home price is right now.
Ryan Selimos:Average.
James LaGamma:The median home price.
Kenny Massa:I would think really high, but I'm going to say something like $450,000.
Ryan Selimos:Okay, To scare people off $600,000.
Kenny Massa:What I really feel like saying is about $1.7 million, but because everything is expensive as fuck in South Florida.
Ryan Selimos:Realistically. I'm going to say $350,000. No way is in there, Dude. There's a lot of areas outside of the four main Orlando, Tampa, South Florida.
Jonny Strahl:Three main Orlando.
Ryan Selimos:Tampa, south Florida. You got to think of those other areas, so that's why I think 350,000. Yeah, 375.
James LaGamma:402.
Ryan Selimos:C2, get up, Stay out.
James LaGamma:C2 get up, stay out now, this is from Forbes and it's based on 2023 Q4 data, which is actually, I would argue is probably higher than what it is now. I think it's dropped a little bit nationwide. In comparison, though what was that, kenny?
Kenny Massa:I said, if there's a place that has held those prices, florida would probably be most likely. Obviously, there's some states that have home prices come down more, but I feel like Florida is more resistant to that than.
James LaGamma:Yeah, I agree, I agree, but so for our good friends in Iowa, where Ryan thinks everyone should move what do? You guys think is the median price there $175.
Ryan Selimos:Oh geez, $260?. No, you said $260? Yeah, $260. I got $175,000. Oh geez, no, you said $260,000?
Kenny Massa:Yeah, $260,000.
Jonny Strahl:I don't know, Okay, $175,000, $260,000. I couldn't even freaking guess what it would be. Let's go $300,000.
James LaGamma:$229,000. Ooh, kenny, you were close. You know what happened.
Ryan Selimos:But if the price is right.
James LaGamma:you're close, you know what happened, but in the prices you're over. So I think technically Ryan wins. Damn All right.
Ryan Selimos:You know how big the average lot size in Iowa is? That's actually a good question, acres.
James LaGamma:Well, my in-laws live there, my sister-in-law.
Kenny Massa:Do they all have land?
James LaGamma:No, it's about the same as a normal house here in Florida. It's nothing crazy. They're in Des Moines, Iowa. I do think they got really good price for the house. I mean, my aunt lives in the Carolinas, specifically South Carolina. She got crazy yard and a crazy big house for the money that she spent.
Jonny Strahl:Like it was insane, nice Um.
James LaGamma:So there's definitely that case. A lot of people like what they're doing essentially leaving from the large priced you know States and moving to those lower price States and then you get just so much more bang for your buck, yeah, so much more. It's insane.
Kenny Massa:Yeah, it is crazy.
James LaGamma:But the the crazy part right now is obviously you're seeing everybody complaining about how people younger people don't have the ability to buy homes like everyone else does.
Jonny Strahl:Yeah.
James LaGamma:And it's interesting. So one of the like Bankrate has a table out there that shows you like, based off the homebuyer's age, the younger the buyer, the more likely they're going to have a smaller down payment.
Jonny Strahl:Makes sense which is insane.
James LaGamma:That hurts qualification rates, that kind of stuff.
Ryan Selimos:Is that really that insane, though, that the younger the buyer, the more likely to have a smaller down payment, I mean, they have less net worth. I'm not totally surprised, tied to that, though they have less net worth.
Kenny Massa:And the reason, but I'm not totally surprised.
James LaGamma:Tied to that, though, it's percentage based right Right now, uh, 24 to 32 is 8% down. Um, but that's percentage of of the home values that are higher nowadays than what everyone was used to. I mean, literally three years ago the house that I bought was lower than 300K and now it's selling for 400K. That percentage back then would have been much higher. It used to be like in the 13, 15%. Now it's down to 8% because they're not catching up the household income. That's the problem right there. Income's not adjusting with the inflation and it's tough, you know. Yeah.
Kenny Massa:I see it from both angles.
James LaGamma:It took us a while to start making some decent money, you know, but I can see it's tough. They want to buy a home, just can't afford it Compared to back in the day. That's what everyone's doing. They're comparing it to back in the day. Rates back in the day Blah, blah, blah. Rates back in the day, though.
Ryan Selimos:Our parents bought at 10%, 11%, 12%. It's an interesting conversation when you hear you know individuals 20 to 30 talking about, yeah, it's too high, it's too expensive, and then you have the older generation come in and say, well, you know the prices they paid. Now again, a house back then was 150 000, but also wages back then were were less, so it's it's. It's an interesting debate. Yeah, I mean, but 10% to 11%. At a $100,000 house, the brand new five bedrooms, yeah, you might be making less money, but let's just keep it real. Someone making, let's say, $60,000, $70,000 out of college right. Nowadays a lot of places are like $50,000, $60,000. Okay, college, right. Nowadays a lot of places are like 50, 60k, four or five hundred thousand dollar house versus a hundred. And you said 150 000 house at 30, 40k, like the cost of of what people have been making or what people make. I feel like it's different when you look at it from like $10,000, $20,000, $30,000. But when you talk about a home and what the actual breakdown is, I feel like it's way crazier now.
Jonny Strahl:Oh, it 100% is.
James LaGamma:So let me put the perspective behind it Ryan You're talking about. Back in the day, I think the median income was somewhere around like $35,000 for the household income On the $100,000 house. At a 9% to 11% interest rate. The income to qualify was somewhere around that $35,000 mark Because that's income ratios and such income ratios and such. Well, nowadays, at a $400,000, mortgage rates are sitting around 7% national average. Your income to qualify, generally speaking, is around $120,000 for household income. That's two people if you have two people in the household. If it's just one, you got to be making $120,000. But the median income right now is $75,000.
Ryan Selimos:Johnny just said people coming out of college are making $50,000 to $60,000. Put two of them together that's $120,000. That math checks out to me.
James LaGamma:But the median household income You're saying median household the average, that's two people already.
Kenny Massa:I get that. Ryan said boss up. That's what he said. Johnny just hit us with a stat.
Ryan Selimos:I agree. People coming out of college right now are making probably $40,000, $50,000. Put two of them, I mean the numbers if you're $75,000.
James LaGamma:You're still $20,000 short of $50,000, Ryan, but also coming right out of college. If you're 75,000, you're still 20 K short of 50,000, right.
Ryan Selimos:But also coming right out of college. Are you really expected to be owning a house? No, parents pay for it. So you probably put, put some put some skin in the game too. We're in a time now where we want everything right now. Put in some work, put in some hours.
Kenny Massa:What's the average first time home buyer age?
James LaGamma:Um some hours.
Kenny Massa:What's the average first time home buyer age? Um, I believe it's like 25, which okay, so that's cool, not terrible.
Ryan Selimos:and and listen, boomers, american dream or a steady paycheck. Get your one, two percent raise. Get Like that's a little bit different nowadays too Like pensions, you know, different. It's just they're hard to compare apples to apples I'll disagree with that. It really is. But you can even see a lot of the generation where like oh back in my day. I bought a house when I was whatever blah, blah, blah.
Ryan Selimos:Well, yeah, it was also normal to get married earlier, have kids earlier, all these other factors. But you've also seen them same people also start to kind of agree like it is a heck of a lot different now. It's also way more competitive.
James LaGamma:Holy shit 28, 28.
Kenny Massa:Holy shit, 28, 28. No, the no 30s, bro. It's been going up and down from like 31, 33, 36. First time did you say 38 years old?
James LaGamma:no 36 is in one of these articles.
Ryan Selimos:It's called 30.
James LaGamma:I haven't seen one article on this search that says anyone lower than 30 years old.
Kenny Massa:Wow, that's surprising.
Ryan Selimos:I feel like that data, though, can also be a little skewed. Could it be skewed, like, if you're living in New York City, you're not buying, you're renting, right, Like okay, then you have a family, you move to Florida?
Jonny Strahl:Like Ryan loves.
Ryan Selimos:Get them out, right.
Jonny Strahl:Like $600,000 studio apartment you're living in in New York City and buy the next door neighbor house to Ryan Say hello, ryan, I'm from New York City, get the fuck out of my lawn.
James LaGamma:What lawn?
Ryan Selimos:in New.
James LaGamma:York City, isn't it nice?
Jonny Strahl:to see, no, when they're in Florida.
James LaGamma:I know.
Jonny Strahl:Oh man.
Ryan Selimos:It's an interesting debate, though, either way whether right, wrong and different, there's a lot of different ways you can go with a lot of this data. Well, here's the reality, man. We talk about how old you are, the younger at the interest rate. We talk about how old you are, the younger at the interest rate, dishing off a lot of money and a lot of responsibility for someone at that age that's going to quote-unquote, pay their house and you know what, should they be mature enough to make that decision. I mean, listen, you got people that are 40, 50 years old making mistakes every single day, people all the time. When it comes to housing, there's a lot of tradeoffs. There's a lot of risk, so it's just tough. James, I'm sure you probably could educate us all for days on how that all works Another time.
James LaGamma:Another time. It's fun. In a consumer-driven market, man, everyone wants you to spend, spend, spend. Credit card debt is crazy.
Ryan Selimos:Just forgive it. It's fine, Sorry. Sorry, we won't go down that path. I heard you're no come on, no I just heard you're a really big believer in student loan forgiveness. Oh for sure, 100%. Oh my gosh.
James LaGamma:Yeah, you know kids coming out of college and they're making $50,000.
Ryan Selimos:They should be able to buy a home. Too many people want a household.
James LaGamma:Student loan debt. Ryan, there you go.
Kenny Massa:Well, that's something that probably delays it right? Student?
James LaGamma:loans. Hell yeah, that's probably why people wait until their 30s.
Ryan Selimos:Definitely why I mean in the time of 2020, just keep delaying it, Keep pushing it, delay it as much as you can.
Jonny Strahl:Because once you pay those student loans off, your credit score is going down a lot.
Kenny Massa:I'll leave you with this. You want to see something crazy? Look up the increasing amount of phantom debt in the United States or globally. But phantom debt is an interesting new way of debt collection through the entire system that is not reported on credit. That is continuing to grow at exceedingly high rates. To give you a, for instance, phantom Debt is like those pay multiple payment options when purchasing a good on any of these platforms. Like a firm right, pay this in three options out of your bank account over the course of three months or whatever. Three to six months. There's different plans, but they're not reported on credit. But it is a collection of debt.
James LaGamma:Oh, so, like, if you miss a payment on, like, say, your Verizon bill, that's what they're using as an example here. Seven years later, it grows to $4,000.
Kenny Massa:11 cents it's just crazy shit, crazy, crazy shit, but it's. It's growing at exceedingly high rates, mostly because of the way that people purchase goods today, with online accessibility and whatnot, um, but I feel like just a whole new realm of debt.
Ryan Selimos:Go look at it, it's fucking nuts so and it so that, like when you're on Amazon or like you're on like Best Buy, and there's that like hey, for three months you could pay a $43. That's, that's what you're talking about. That's phantom debt.
James LaGamma:The buy now, pay later debt yeah.
Ryan Selimos:Also called zombie debt. This shit's coming crashing down, and that's a smart idea.
Kenny Massa:It's smart for the companies, but you got to look at the statistics, dive into it, look at it. It's completely new. That's a way of changing consumer behavior and it's like almost a subscription model for debt like, but because of how consumers are spending, it's normalized, so it's really interesting good subscription model you know, I've I've heard about this.
James LaGamma:The ftc and the cfd have been issuing a lot of statements about this stuff lately.
Kenny Massa:Yeah, and you're going to see some different changes, of course, over time. But you know, as new things come out, that always happens, damn. But yeah, dive into it a little bit if you have some time to read about it.
Ryan Selimos:Don't send me a 30-minute video on. You have some time to read about it. Don't send me a 30-minute video on it, but I'll read it.
James LaGamma:Fuck you, Ryan. Everything's going to be short. Hopefully people are listening into this podcast at 58 minutes Fucking joker.
Kenny Massa:Ryan just wants the first thing, goodness gracious. Oh shit. But yeah, I mean, it's just interesting stuff. Got to check it out because it's different and it'll make you think a little bit differently than making a purchase. Maybe I don't know. But yeah, interesting stuff.
James LaGamma:Nice.
Kenny Massa:Cool. Anyone got any last-minute things?
Jonny Strahl:before they fall in a hole of reading about debt.
James LaGamma:No, moving sucks. That's my last comment. Moving fucking sucks. Two men in a truck storage units, storage pods.
Jonny Strahl:What a business, if you made it this far to the podcast we should do a podcast from James' pods podcast from the pods.
James LaGamma:There's a lot of chairs in there. We could do that. Wifi reception still on until the 10th air conditioning or the sweat box. It's a sweat box. I have a fan, I can, or an extension cord.
Kenny Massa:Sounds terrible.
James LaGamma:It's a commercial. It's a commercial fan.
Kenny Massa:It's hot as fuck here. That's bad.
James LaGamma:I was fucking nervous. It's up at 97 degrees. I was drenched, it was. So it's up at 97 degrees, 97. Dude, I was drenched, it was bad.
Ryan Selimos:It was so hot in Florida. The water isn't even refreshing anymore. Just stay away. We got nothing good to offer you.
Kenny Massa:Jesus, awesome. Well, we'll see you down here in Florida, everybody.
Jonny Strahl:The vendor continues.
James LaGamma:The vendor continues the vendor continues.
Ryan Selimos:Oh my gosh.
